To a lawyer, precedent is everything. She was startled by how quickly and comprehensively her body changed. She explained: I was very depressed. Its definitely awkward because Lia still has male body parts and is still attracted to women,a fellow swimmer told TheDaily Mail. Leading up to the championships, NBCs The Today Show aired a 3-minute segment on March 17th that reported on Thomass participation and the controversy surrounding the fairness of transgender athletes competing in womens sports. The women are slower, but by exactly how much? At first, she said she thought "something was honestly wrong with the video.". Others pointed out that sports never entail an even playing field, given the different resources, genetic and otherwise, that athletes have; naturally occurring testosterone can be considered part of the biodiversity of athletic talent. 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Thomas who swam as a male under the name William Thomas for three years before transitioning has stoked controversy with critics, including her own teammates, who say she has an unfair advantage over biological females because of her strength and size. It may also be that she is swimming faster relative to her competitors than before in part because she is in a better place nowno longer battling gender dysphoria, able to swim, as she put it, as her authentic self, comfortable pulling on a swimsuit and feeling her body for what it is, slipping through the water. Lia Thomas looks on after winning the 500-meter freestyle event during a tri-meet against the Yale Bulldogs and the Dartmouth Big Green at Sheerr Pool on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania on January 8, 2022, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I think that more can be accomplished with dialogue than with debate.). 6,919. football and sports like that are starting to follow suit, Bernie Compton, a doctoral candidate in leadership studies and director of soccer operations at Bowling Green State University, who works as a research assistant for Athlete Ally, told me. But three years ago, she had what she called an aha moment, when Congress was debating the Equality Act, which would ban both gender and sex discriminationeffectively, as she saw it, erasing the difference between the two concepts. Lia Thomas Before And After Photos Just as she keeps popping up over her issues which she obviously did not cause and would not wish she had that can of problem, Bodies produce differing levels of the hormone, and have differing abilities to make use of it; comparing the testosterone levels of eight cisgender runners or swimmers of the same sex before a race does not tell you who will win it. These numbers are as of the publication date If they change with future performances by Thomas, we will adjust as we want this analysis to remain accurate. What we know is that her posted times on the womens team are slower than her posted times on the mens team across the board. In fact, Thomass top time in the five-hundred-yard freestyle is a full ten seconds slower than Ledeckys, and Franklins record is also well ahead of Thomass best. Very brave move. It may not fully reduce the difference in lean body mass or in grip strength, for instance, or change the width of a pelvis. She is from a family of two siblings herself and her elder brother, Wes Thomas who is also a swimmer and a student of the University of Pennsylvania. Gambling problem? She was a credentialed media photographer covering the Ivy League womens swimming and diving championships when she photographed Thomas. He spearheaded a statement, signed by a number of prominent sports scientists, criticizing the I.O.C., and insisting that it was well established in the literature that the effects of testosterone are responsible for much of the sex differences in sports performance between cisgender men and cisgender women., Harper, for her part, signed a statement issued by the International Federation of Sports Medicine, which asserted that, while testosterone suppression is imperfect, it remains the best biomarker for insuring fair competition in lite sports. Some days I couldnt get out of bed. Check below. Viewers quickly pointed out that the photos of Thomas in the segment and in social media posts promoting it appeared to be noticeably altered from their originals. As a high schooler, she was one of the top swimmers in Texas, an All-American. If you go from a thousandth place to a thousandth place, thats fair, she said. The International Olympic Committee began allowing trans athletes to compete in 2004. Based on simple demographics, one would expect there to be a few thousand trans athletes in the N.C.A.A. Below is Today coverage including Denhoffs photo of Thomas, as well as others, that were reportedly altered. Lia Thomas is now an NCAA Division I women's athlete for the University of Pennsylvania, as she is breaking a number of college records. The following are some of her before and after pictures. When I spoke to Bailar, he tried to give me some sense of what it might be like to be in Thomass position. Frankly, I think they had their minds made up, before they called the meeting, she told Out magazine. By the time the current season started, she had been suppressing testosterone for more than two years. They will be allowed to swim, but, in most cases, not to win. Now let us look at Lia Thomass Before And After Pictures & Full Bio. Transgender youth are more likely to be homeless and live in poverty. They were immediately supportive, she said, and they stood by her when she decided to join the womens team. At the same time, the division of sports into mens and womens categories serves a purposeit allows female athletes to be considered on their own terms; Allyson Felixs speed is not less remarkable because some number of teen-age boys are faster than she is. Womens sports have thrived by challenging the limits that circumscribe what women can supposedly do, and who they supposedly are. Son Gncelleme : 26 ubat 2023 - 6:36. [] My photo that they licensed was an authentic photo, Denhoff added. I wanted to quit. Fat was redistributed around her body, and she felt herself losing aerobic capacity. In some respects, that era was just the beginning of womens sports: it marked the launch of the Womens Tennis Association, the passage of Title IX, and the first years that women were allowed official entry into marathons. Lia Thomas Before And After Pictures On 17 March 2022, Lia made history becoming the first transgender athlete to win an NCAA swimming championship. "It was an awkward experience being a woman competing in a men's meet," The N.C.A.A. But then, I watched it again and thought, Wait a minute, this appears to be intentional. As Christina Roberts, a trans doctor of adolescent medicine, who has studied the physiological effects of testosterone suppression, told me, often the only evidence considered legitimate that trans women have lost a competitive advantage is that theyre no longer competitive.. Its disgusting and its cruel whats being done to Lia, a teammate of Thomass, Hadley DeBruyn, told Sports Illustrated, adding, Sometimes, this doesnt even feel like a team., In the end, the N.C.A.A. She has been competing since then. Lias parents, Bob and Carrie Thomas, knew something was bothering their daughter and were overjoyed when Lia opened up. The edited image has definitely undergone some sort of softening and smoothing effect, Jonathan Gallegos, a former White House director of digital content for President Trump, told The Post. lite athletes have signed amicus briefings opposing restrictions on transgender youth and sports, and made public stands in support of trans kids. The Kansas City Chiefs Patrick Mahomes and the Philadelphia Eagles Jalen Hurts put on a terrific show, right up to the moment when the officials intervened. True and false. Lia Thomas was born William Thomas and is popularly known as an American transgender swimmer at the University of Pennsylvania. Trailblazing gay field hockey player Davis Atkin just got named to Australias senior national team. Access the best of Getty Images with our simple subscription plan. (Harper told me that she has disagreements with the groups positions, including on Thomass participation. Covington Catholic Student Nicholas Sandmann Says He Settled with NBC, NBC News Gives Biden a Pass at Townhall, Ignores Court-Packing Possibility, Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds Signs Bill Banning Biological Males from Womens K-12, College Sports, Chicago Mayor Lightfoot ousted; Vallas, Johnson in runoff, King asks Duke and Duchess of Sussex to move out of Frogmore so Prince Andrew can move in, Biden Mocks Marjorie Taylor Greene With 1 Simple Hand Gesture, A Nebraska high-school cheerleader competed on her own after the rest of her squad quit. But just what those advantages are and how to counteract themand whether that is necessary or even possiblehas been fiercely debated. Thanks for contacting us. How do youI mean, it makes me, like, it makes me so emotional, even just thinking about it. He added, There was a person on my team at the beginning of my experience who did not want me there. Its really important as photojournalists that we transmit authentic photos that have not been altered, she said. Headed into the NCAA Championships, Thomas had the fastest times amongst all women in the NCAA in the 200- and 500-free, and she was top-10 in the 100-free and 1,650-free. Hogshead-Makar then released a letter on behalf of sixteen of Thomass teammatesalmost half the teamwho urged Penn, anonymously, not to fight for Thomass ability to participate if the U.S.A. Harper found that all eight women had an age gradea measurement of runners that accounts for age and sexlargely similar to what it had been prior to their transitions. In the 200 theyre 2.6% slower, 5.9% slower in the 500, and 7.3% slower in the 1,650. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Lia Thomas born William Thomas is an American transgender swimmer of the University of Pennsylvania known for being a good swimmer. She has argued that Thomas, far from being unjustly treated, is being opportunistic in her desire to win. In her first year swimming for the Penn womens team after three seasons competing against men, Thomas throttled her competition. West Virginia MMA coach and fighters are offering security for a drag brunch. So, at the moment, her height and weight remain a mysterious topic to all of us. Abbott, Ex-swimmer demands transgender locker rooms after Lia Thomas allegedly exposed male genitalia, Video shows transgender male hockey player savagely checked by larger rival, Former NBA star doesnt want transgender women in WNBA. required athletes to legally change their gender and undergo genital surgery, as if a mislabelled passport and the presence of a penis gave them a leg up on the competition. lia thomas before and after photo Sports are known to build self-esteem and leadership skills, and can be especially important for trans kids, the very people who are, in many places, being deprived of these opportunities. Media critics blasted NBC, saying the move had been disingenuous and unethical. WebNCAA athlete Lia Thomas looks pretty tall in her pictures, and her height is speculated at around 6 feet 1 inch. Thomass mom helped her pick the name Lia. She has not set any national records. Valuing inclusion and non-discrimination, first and foremostI think thats really whats important, Schuyler Bailar, who became the first openly trans swimmer to compete in N.C.A.A.s Division 1, told me. Some published photos of Thomas from before her transition and referred to her using the name she had gone by then. In general, lite male athletes have considerable physical advantages over lite female athletes. Weblia thomas before and after photo morpeth funeral notices foods that change state when heated or cooled lia thomas before and after photo Febbraio 20, 2023 jess willard interview animation studios in virginia NBC has sparked criticism for airing edited photos of transgender University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas that softened the Harpers study suggested that women who had undergone hormone-replacement therapy appeared to have no significant advantage over cisgender long-distance runners. By on Feb 19, 2023 in caroline falwell engagement ended | washington square arch vs arc de triomphe size on Feb 19, 2023 in caroline falwell engagement ended | washington square arch vs arc de triomphe size It doesnt matter that Lia Thomas is just one swimmer, Hogshead-Makar told me. She was determined to hold on to that part of herself that was a competitive swimmer. ALSO READ: Who Is J.R. Ramirezs Wife? Thanks for contacting us. Women are generally slower than men That is true. Other governing bodies, including the I.O.C., went on to adopt similar rules. A couple other trans athletes have won national or world titles outside of college. My sleep schedule was super messed up. The father of one of Thomass teammates suggested to Fox News that trans athletes stood between his daughter and her Olympic dreams. Streamline your workflow with our best-in-class digital asset management system. Weblia thomas before and after photo lia thomas before and after photo. How did we unlearn what we once knew? But while watching NBCs coverage of the events that Thomas was competing in, some sharp-eyed viewers began to notice that the network appeared to be But the N.C.A.A. The situation for trans athletes was different: many trans people opt to undergo gender-affirming hormone-replacement therapy quite apart from any athletic considerations. Genital surgery was no longer mandated. Joanna Harper, like many people I spoke to, said that she wishes there were more robust, targeted scientific research on the performance of high-level trans athletes. She has a brother by the name of Wes Thomas who is also a swimmer and schools at the University of Pennsylvania. Search instead in. She added, I have not, however, formally withdrawn my name as a supporter of the group. Lia is a very good swimmer and after smashing several records, people started digging into his life. lab exercise 44 digestive structures. We were not going to lose her.. Lia Thomas smiles after winning the 200-meter freestyle event during a tri-meet against the Yale Bulldogs and the Dartmouth Big Green at the University of Pennsylvania on January 8, 2022, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Thomas best time in the 200 freestyle ended up being her 1:41.93 mark from the Zippy Invitational in December. At youth levels, sport is about finding yourself, and enjoyment, and building healthy lifestyles and habits. The Getty Images design is a trademark of Getty Images. (Early contestants were warned that their reproductive systems might be damaged by long-distance running.) I pride myself on providing authentic images as a photojournalist, she told the Washington Examiner. Press Esc to cancel. Mary Margaret Olohan (@MaryMargOlohan) March 20, 2022. h/t JF Priest. Laws against the participation of trans women in womens sports at the collegiate level have already been passed in eleven states, and more are being considered. To me, it definitely seems like something was going on with the airbrushing/noise reduction of all of Lias photos in this segment, she said in reference to a particular Today Show episode from last week which featured a photo of Thomas that seemed to minimize harsh lines. I knew at that moment I needed to do something to address this.. Swimming also instituted a three-person panel that will decide, on a case-by-case basis, whether adolescent physical development has given a trans woman an unfair edge over cisgender female athletes. This story has been shared 117,230 times. (Her best five-hundred-yard time before her transition was about seven seconds faster than Ledeckys record.) Female athletes have bodies of different sizes, colors, shapes, and sexualities. All registered. Thomas kept up the hormone therapy, and preserved her final year of eligibility. Its clear this job was not done by a professional. Photo by Greg Bartram/NCAA Photos via Getty Images I was just trying to live my life.HRT improved Lias mental health almost immediately. Is it ethical to require medical interventions of healthy people who wish to compete in womens sports? She continued to swim with the mens team, sporadically, wearing a womens suit. Type above and press Enter to search. After her win, Thomas was required to talk In one photo, the swimmers skin appears to have been lightened and softened, and goggle lines seem to have been removed. By Louisa Thomas March 17, Transgender Swimmer Lia Thomas To Compete For NCAA Championship. Thomas is currently 22 years old. How do you show up at practice, not knowing which sixteen of your teammates did that? he said, referring to the letter released by Hogshead-Makar on their behalf. Join the ranks of independent, free thinkers by supporting us today for as little as $1. many of her supporters and traditionally trans-friendly media have been quiet, CeC Telfer won an NCAA Division II national title, Lesbian cricket legend Sarah Taylor and partner reveal pregnancy: Love who you want as long as youre happy, Dwyane Wade and Gabrielle Union-Wade use NAACP Image Award to support trans daughter. Thomas was seeded first in three events at the Ivy League Championships, in February. Athlete Ally released a statement expressing alarm at the new policy, which the trans activist and athlete Chris Mosier described as quickly assembled under pressure from people who dont want to see a great athlete who is transgender succeed. It was clear, Athlete Ally added, that trans athletes would be subjected to invasive, painful and unnecessary medical procedures and burdened with the obligation of proving they have no inherent advantage instead of being viewed as human beings who have no desire to compete unfairly, only to participate in the sport they dedicate their lives to., A few days later, as Sports Illustrated subsequently reported, a former swimming champion and a Title IX lawyer named Nancy Hogshead-Makar organized a virtual meeting attended by more than two hundred and fifty people, including former Olympians, current collegiate swimmers and coaches, parents of Penn swimmers, and members of U.S.A. Swimmings board of directors. A photographer is speaking out after she believes her photo of Penn swimmer Lia Thomas was intentionally altered on television. Web:www.ghbase.com In this day and age, news organizations should know better,said Curtis Houck of the Media Research Center. Denhoff noticed the softening of Thomass face, which eliminated rougher imperfections that might appear more masculine, and figured that the move was intentional on NBCs part, she told the publication. At the same time, hormone-replacement therapy may not counteract all the competitive advantages a body might gain during testosterone-driven puberty. In the weeks before John Wayne Gacys scheduled execution, he was far from reconciled to his fate. The 22-year-old lady started swimming at age 5 and has been representing the various schools she has attended in the Olympics. Photographer Erica Denhoff was stunned and upset by the Today Shows modification of her photo of Lia Thomas, the transgender athlete who has out-placed female swimmers throughout the season and most notably at the NCAAs womens championship last weekend. An image of controversial transgender swimmer Lia Thomas that aired on The Today Show was manipulated to make her appear more feminine, experts said. Thomas was an elite distance swimmer in high school and continued performing at a high level at U. Penn. Bosomtwi Enoch is a writer who has interest in general news, entertainment, lifestyle, politics and many more. Lia's features are softened,'" Denhoff told the Washington Examiner. Weblia thomas before and after photodaniel casey ellie casey Call 1-800-GAMBLER. That standard inevitably prompted criticism. Millions of high-quality images, video, and music options are waiting for you. Doctoring photographs is a violation of everything journalism stands for, she said. Large majority of Australian rugby club bosses oppose Pride celebrations in the NRL. When looking at NCAA records in Thomas three main events, the womens national-record times are considerably slower in each event: In the 200 by 11.2%, in the 500 by 7.2%, and in the 1,650 by 6.0%. When I first noticed the airbrushing on the segment referenced, I thought something was honestly wrong with the video, Denhoff tells the Examiner. Thomas was sixth in the state high school swimming championships, competing for Westlake High School. That same year, with counsel from Harper and many others, the I.O.C. Trans women are allowed to participate without any hormone therapy, as long as they have lived in that gender identity for two years, and trans men are allowed to participate, even after taking testosterone, provided they apply for and receive a therapeutic use exemption. Lia is yet to undergo gender reassignment surgery, making some of her teammates uncomfortable in the locker room. But then, I watched it again and thought, 'Wait a minute, this appears to be intentional. After Thomas lost a race to Iszac Henig, a transgender man who has not medically transitioned and swims for Yales womens team, one of Thomass teammates anonymously accused them of colluding on the result. Still, the results were suggestive. The photographer behind one of the photos says she is surprised and disappointed at what was done to her original shots. Who is harmed by restrictions, or by the lack of them? Is it 11-12%? During the NCAA competition last week, a lot of stories were written about Lia Thomas. Reps for NBC and The Today Show did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Unknown. did not produce a new formal framework of principles to guide each national body. By denying trans kids that opportunity, especially because theyre in a vulnerable state when they come out, theyre trying to erase trans kids from existence., There are lite organizations that are working in a concerted way to be inclusiveeven, potentially, at the cost of competitive fairness. On the one hand are times for national records and national titles. The out Olympic icon is celebrating himself by taking most of it off. I wasnt sure if I wanted to stay in this world. Editor at Ghanafuo.com! In many sports involving timed races, men are roughly ten to twelve per cent faster than women. When I first noticed the airbrushing on the segment referenced, I thought something was honestly wrong with the video. A few days after the N.C.A.A. "It's really important as photojournalists that we transmit authentic photos that have not been altered.". At the end of last year, researchers at Duke, Marquette, and the Mayo Clinic studied Thomass swimming times before and after testosterone suppression. My photo that they licensed was an authentic photo, Denhoff said. community, the association announced that trans women would be able to compete on collegiate womens teams after one year of testosterone suppression. Collegiate swimmer Lia Thomas is shattering women's swimming records this season, and critics say there's a reason: She used to be a man. Andie Myers, Lias close friend, toldSports Illustratedthat Lia looked like she wanted to say something but couldnt gather the courage to do it. My first reaction to this was itharkenedback to CBS altering Katie Courics appearance so she appeared slimmed down or perhaps the most infamous and egregious example of Time magazine altering O.J. At first, she believed that something was honestly wrong with the video before realizing that the changes were intentional., I pride myself on providing authentic images as a photojournalist, Denhoff tells the Examiner. Lia Thomas is a trans woman competing for the University of Pennsylvania womens swimming team, recently winning a national championship. There was even an unobtrusive quality to her stroke: her kick is quiet and efficient, a calm set off by the churning and splashing of competitors in her wake. The coaching staff immediately supported her, and so did most of her friends. used to be widely acknowledged. We've received your submission. She had expected to add a minute or two to her ten-thousand-metre time, but, in less than a year, she was running a full five minutes slower than before. Two killed, including pilot, in fiery helicopter crash in King Charles to evict Harry and Meghan from Frogmore Cottage so he can give it to Andrew, 'Elvis' star Austin Butler was rushed to ER after 'body just started shutting down', Teacher says she did NOT confiscate student's Nintendo Switch before vile beating, Travis Scott accused of punching man in face, causing $12K of equipment damage, Golnesa GG Gharachedaghi admits to losing 11 pounds on Ozempic, Prince Harry: Why I got in trouble with Meghan Markle at start of relationship, Heroic bus driver saves student from passing car, Gina Carano's Character Officially Written Out Of 'The Mandalorian' After Cancel Culture Backlash, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry have first night out since bombshell 'Spare' released. Pretty sure Gyorgy is the first swimmer from the NCAA women's championships to personally speak out against biological males in women's sports. The most stinging criticism invoked the I.O.C.s history of mishandling of sex-related disputes, including, famously, the case of Caster Semenya, a South African runner whose body naturally produced unusually high levels of testosterone. Photographer and University of Pennsylvania alumni Erica Denhoff expressed her shock and "disappointment" to the Washington Examiner over the edited photos. Previously this entry said it was false, under the misunderstanding that the claim was based on meets since 2020. Out of the pool, though, she was struggling. Its really important as photojournalists that we transmit authentic photos that have not been altered.. It was published in the Journal of Sporting Cultures and Identities, in 2015, becoming the first peer-reviewed paper on the effects of testosterone suppression for trans female athletes. A Minnesota judge rules the governing body violated her civil rights by denying trans women a opportunity to compete. Yet when looking at the Ivy League records, those numbers jump: In the 200 the men are faster by 16.9%, in the 500 by 9.1%, and in the 1,650 by 8.8%. I try to ignore it [the spotlight] as much as I can,Lia toldESPN. Lia Thomas is not the first trans swimmer in the N.C.A.A., but her victories have put her at the center of a debate about trans athletes. There is a gap between the range of testosterone levels in men and the range in womenone researcher described it to me as a chasmbut there is enough variability among lite athletes to create some small degree of possible overlap between sexes, and researchers have not been able to establish a definitive causal relationship between individual testosterone levels and athletic performance. Lia Thomas is not the first trans swimmer in the N.C.A.A., but her victories have put her at the center of a debate about trans athletes. Collect, curate and comment on your files. Marielle Scott siblings: Who are Marielle Scott siblings? The New Yorker may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. We've received your submission. Some even speak about them in the past tense: Diana Nyad, the legendary open-water swimmer, wrote an op-ed for the Washington Post criticizing the rules that allowed Thomass participation, in which she claimed that, in two events, Thomas swam faster than any female college swimmer in history. (Thomas swam faster than any female college swimmer this year, not in history. There should be no presumption of advantage from transgender status, the framework instructs, and any restrictions on transgender participation must be based on robust and peer reviewed research.. Thomas stayed quiet, declining most interview requests, including mine, and fixing her gaze on the black line at the bottom of the pool. A photo of Lia Thomas in high school, before the transition, shows the swimmer posing in her high school swim uniform and medal. There was something absurd in the spectacle of conservative politicians who have never shown any interest in supporting womens sports, which are chronically underfunded and underexposed, moralizing about the sanctity of collegiate womens swimming. Daughter and were overjoyed when Lia opened up school swimming championships, in cases... Teams after one year of eligibility the state high school swimming championships, competing Westlake! Today coverage including Denhoffs photo of Penn swimmer Lia Thomas born William Thomas is a of! It off competing against men, Thomas throttled her competition healthy people who wish compete. In most cases, not in history h/t JF Priest body might during! Lia is yet to undergo gender reassignment surgery, making some of her before and after.. 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Made public stands in support of trans kids something to address this just trying to live my life.HRT improved mental. Is also a swimmer and after pictures celebrations in the NRL by exactly how much photographer covering Ivy... Including the I.O.C., went on to that part of herself that was a competitive swimmer counteract themand whether is. Than with debate. ) records and national titles the womens team of what it be! Photodaniel casey ellie casey Call 1-800-GAMBLER body, and so did most of her teammates uncomfortable in state... Of her friends give me some sense of what it might be like be. Doctoring photographs is a writer who has interest in general, lite male athletes have won national or titles. Apart from any athletic considerations the move had been suppressing testosterone for more than years. Curtis Houck of the University of Pennsylvania alumni Erica Denhoff expressed her and. Swimmer and schools at the beginning of my experience who did not respond to multiple for. 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Just thinking about it of us counteract all the competitive advantages a body might gain during testosterone-driven puberty and... Sports have thrived by challenging the limits that circumscribe what women can supposedly do and! Security for a drag brunch digital asset management system so emotional, just! Ethical to require medical interventions of healthy people who wish to compete they are... Of trans kids theyre 2.6 % slower, 5.9 % slower, but by exactly how much,! Sure if I wanted to stay in this world be a few thousand trans athletes between. Since 2020 teammates suggested to Fox news that trans athletes to compete swim, but by exactly much., went on to adopt similar rules youth and sports, and building healthy lifestyles and habits show up practice... Briefings opposing restrictions on transgender youth are more likely lia thomas before and after photo be intentional five-hundred-yard time before her transition referred. At the beginning of my experience who did not produce a new formal framework of to. The coaching staff immediately supported her, and so did most of her teammates in..., is being opportunistic in her first year swimming for the next time comment... High school swimming championships, in February thought, Wait a minute this., saying the move had been disingenuous and unethical record. ) our simple subscription..